Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Scintillation crystals, PMTs, voltage dividers etc...
Janni
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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by Janni » 17 Aug 2019, 18:05

But look at the exact device name. Ours has not a neutron detector because it's name is PDS-100G and the one with the neutron detector is PDS-100GN, so ours can not count neutrons, but for the price I do not complain about that. Anyway, I have bought this nice neutron detector from Steven :-)

In Fukushima area I have stayed for some days. It was combined with a Japan round trip, I wanted to visit Japan since several years and then for sure included Fukushima in the trip. Do you know real-fukushima.com? You can book a official tour in the exclusion zone with them. You will come about 2 km close to the power plant with this tour. You will come to Namie, Okuma, to the coast and several places. I stayed in a hotel in Odaka what is a small town close to the exclusion zone. Karin from real-fukushima has a hotel there, I stayed at her neighbors. It was very nice and I can recommend that. I went also to different places, even a workshop and visit the power plant, but that was more or less good luck that the workshop was at that time. There I stayed in a hotel in J-village what is a sports complex and some years ago in use by power plant and cleanup workers. I also went around by myself and made some measurements, but that was not so easy without a car, but I had no japanese translation for driver license. As there are very few buses in this almost empty area I walked a lot and hitchhiked, people were very friendly and helpful and it was also a nice adventure :-)

Reading from my geiger counter was almost not too high. Just in the red zone in some places about 70µSv/h but most of the time not more than 5 to 10µSv, even in the red zone. But depends very much on the place. I had all around the other areas except the red zone almost normal readings, but when you go into the forest you get about ten times the normal about 1 µSv/h. Just on the power plant area there was a place between reactor unit 2 and 3 that we passed in a bus that had several hundreds µSv/h.

So you will find a lot, but not as high readings as in some special places in Chernobyl area, like red forest or basement of the hospital. I have been there before, but go this year again because I love Ukraine and it is just a two hours flight from Germany :-)

Janni
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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by Janni » 17 Aug 2019, 18:08

If you want to know something additional for Fukushima visit or Japan in general, you can always ask. I would be always happy to help :-)

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Go-Figure
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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by Go-Figure » 18 Aug 2019, 08:10

Janni wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 18:05
But look at the exact device name. Ours has not a neutron detector because it's name is PDS-100G and the one with the neutron detector is PDS-100GN, so ours can not count neutrons, but for the price I do not complain about that. Anyway, I have bought this nice neutron detector from Steven :-)
Actually, as far as I know the difference is in the software.
A person in Italy apparently can "convert" a G into a GN (he did it for a few users of a forum I used to get informations about the detector before buying it) which leads me to think the neutron detector it's there. Probably the detector itself is not the most expensive part of the "package".
The same user said he had the chance to compare the dose rate reading with that of a freshly calibrated Atomtex AT 1121 in a very high background and difference where within 1%.

In Fukushima area I have stayed for some days. It was combined with a Japan round trip, I wanted to visit Japan since several years and then for sure included Fukushima in the trip. Do you know real-fukushima.com? You can book a official tour in the exclusion zone with them. You will come about 2 km close to the power plant with this tour. You will come to Namie, Okuma, to the coast and several places. I stayed in a hotel in Odaka what is a small town close to the exclusion zone. Karin from real-fukushima has a hotel there, I stayed at her neighbors. It was very nice and I can recommend that. I went also to different places, even a workshop and visit the power plant, but that was more or less good luck that the workshop was at that time. There I stayed in a hotel in J-village what is a sports complex and some years ago in use by power plant and cleanup workers. I also went around by myself and made some measurements, but that was not so easy without a car, but I had no japanese translation for driver license. As there are very few buses in this almost empty area I walked a lot and hitchhiked, people were very friendly and helpful and it was also a nice adventure :-)

Reading from my geiger counter was almost not too high. Just in the red zone in some places about 70µSv/h but most of the time not more than 5 to 10µSv, even in the red zone. But depends very much on the place. I had all around the other areas except the red zone almost normal readings, but when you go into the forest you get about ten times the normal about 1 µSv/h. Just on the power plant area there was a place between reactor unit 2 and 3 that we passed in a bus that had several hundreds µSv/h.

So you will find a lot, but not as high readings as in some special places in Chernobyl area, like red forest or basement of the hospital. I have been there before, but go this year again because I love Ukraine and it is just a two hours flight from Germany :-)
I've been in Japan twice already, but never did any measurement before.
I am arranging a private day tour. Since I want to record some spectrum without having to move along with the group I asked for a driver and a guide to get there by car from Tokyo in the morning and back in the evening. I am in touch with a different agency, I will check out the one you mentioned as well.
Checking Japan Radiation Map https://jciv.iidj.net/map/ something in the region of 5-7 µSv/h is what I expect, with the possibility of hot spots.
The good things is that I expect a lot of CPS, so recording a decently looking spectrum should be pretty quick, even because, unlike natural radiation from U238 and Th232, this is not spread between many peaks, it's all Cs137 with some Cs134.

Massimo

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sgt_bear
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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by sgt_bear » 18 Aug 2019, 19:07

This is a very interestind an nice detector, i saw those in ebay and were considering purchasing this device.
Does it have a smart phone app?
- Jonathan from Switzerland

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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by cicastol » 18 Aug 2019, 21:19

Janni wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 18:05
But look at the exact device name. Ours has not a neutron detector because it's name is PDS-100G and the one with the neutron detector is PDS-100GN, so ours can not count neutrons, but for the price I do not complain about that. Anyway, I have bought this nice neutron detector from Steven :-)
HI, PDS-100G-GN and maybe the id version share the same hardware and detector, with the software PdsMass with admin login you could activate "Gamma & neutron " flag under factory parameters menu, by doing this the neutron counting is working but N cps is not shown on display in standalone mode, but neutron detection, alarm and recording is ok.
In user parameters menu you could see also the detector type as " Gamma & Neutron" type.
Once activated the neutron detection is possible to adjust the threshold, when detector see pulse with energy higher than 3MeV it is assumed as a Neutron, try to use Th232 to fine tune the threshold (Tl 208 2614keV not triggering neutron event count).

PDS100 is not a dosimeter or intended to do, it's response is linearized with 3 point energy calibration, but is not fully energy linearized as a dosimeter should be, it is a search e detect device with spectrometric features for isotopes identifications.

P.S. Massimo sent PM !
Ciro

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pilgrim
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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by pilgrim » 18 Aug 2019, 22:35

Great review Massimo, I'm glad I gave you the right tip ;-)
I look forward to read your Fukushima chronicles !!
Daniel, Italy

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Go-Figure
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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by Go-Figure » 19 Aug 2019, 06:25

pilgrim wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 22:35
Great review Massimo, I'm glad I gave you the right tip ;-)
I look forward to read your Fukushima chronicles !!
Yeah, I owe you one Daniel!

I can confirm that I just converted the PDS 100G in PDS 100GN by simply flagging "gamma and neutron" in factory parameters.
In order to do that you have the login as administrator, thanks Ciro!
There are so many Italians here, we are invading the forum :)

As for the accuracy of the device, I have to say I considered many alternatives to this detector.
The Polimaster 1703MO-1B which is sold as a spectroiscopic dosimeter has an accuracy of +/- 20%, as you can see in the specifications section https://en.polimaster.com/catalog/prd-g ... -bt/#tab-2
I ruled this one out because it doesn't support anymore the software which allows to acquire and save the spectra.

Then I considered the Hamamatsu c12137 https://www.hamamatsu.com/resources/pdf ... c1196e.pdf
And also the TC300L http://www.techno-ap.com/img/TC300L_e.pdf
Margin of error 15-20 % for both.

Same thing for the dosimeters of SE International
https://seintl.com/rad-60
https://seintl.com/sentry-ec

And finally the Atomex AT1121 https://atomtex.com/sites/default/files ... 1123_0.pdf, similar margin of error.

So in the end you can't get rid of a certain margin of error unless (maybe) you add a zero to the price.
According to people who had the chance to make a comparison dose rate from the PDS is within 1% of the Atomex and it's in good agreement with the Scintillator Probe 6150AD-b from Automess (https://www.automess.de/Download/Prospekt_ADb_E.pdf).

A wise man once told me that "perfect is the enemy of good enough".

Massimo
Last edited by Go-Figure on 19 Aug 2019, 09:00, edited 2 times in total.

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Go-Figure
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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by Go-Figure » 19 Aug 2019, 06:33

sgt_bear wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 19:07
This is a very interestind an nice detector, i saw those in ebay and were considering purchasing this device.
Does it have a smart phone app?
No, as far as I know you need a device with Windows OS. I went for a transformer 10’’ Tablet/PC. The software works fine with Windows 10.

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Go-Figure
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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by Go-Figure » 19 Aug 2019, 07:12

You can see after the conversion the real time graph has a lot more data available.
Before you could only see dose rate and CPS, now not only you have the neutron counts, but also those in the Am241, Cs137 and Co60 "windows".
You can flag and unflag what you want to see, because keeping them all makes the graph a bit "crowded".
Attachments
real time graph.png

Janni
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Re: Mirion PDS 100G, Spectrometric Personal Radiation Detector

Post by Janni » 20 Aug 2019, 02:24

Cool, that is really nice that you can convert it in a GN device! And I thought the detector is the expensive special part and not the software...
Would you also help me with mine to do that? I have also answer from my friend and she can give me the software, but seems like the CD is broken. Anyway maybe it is somehow possible to make it running... I don't know what program modules are available on the CD. I will see in two weeks because now I'm on holiday and not at home.

Regarding accuracy I did just a fast check because there was no time before holiday. I have a small uranium mineral that makes 10uSv/h on very reliable automess AD6 and on the PDS it was only 6, so that is the difference. But I can check more and specify better when back home. I can also compare with another PDS or other devices then. Anyway, the most interesting to me on this device is the spectrum and neutron function. :-)

For Fukushima tour the real-Fukushima.com is the official organization if you want to enter in the exclusion zone with official permission. You can also book a private tour I think. I was together with three other people. I am very sure you don't even need to go in the closed zone to make a spectrum. I'm just so curious person and always want to see everything and this is what I found out then, seems like there are also other ways.

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